Mónica Alcázar-Duarte: I AM NOT DATA
Mónica Alcázar-Duarte is a Mexican-British multi-disciplinary visual artist whose work acknowledges her indigenous heritage while exploring current ideals of progress. Migration, with the uneasiness that derives from it, and a need for equality, all play an important role in her work. Her projects are, at some level, acts of survival. A personal attempt to intervene with current practices of representation that grows into a need to engage with the public.
Anchored to meticulous research, her work contributes to contemporary thought on social, political, and cultural issues.
“In our ever-shifting world, in the midst of an ecological disaster, a sense of being at a tipping point has created an acute awareness for many. Transition, participation and need for equality are the core motivations of Monica’s mostly long-term projects. Interaction and participation with the public are indispensable to force a reflection around processes of interpretation, and become an intrinsic ground of her thinking and research path. Aware that in the current fluid world, the only constant element is change, one aspect remains still throughout: the personal as a driving force to activate the collective. What, intimately keeps her going is to find and create ways of making ourselves, as a community, an active force that works towards a better society. Monica’s creative thinking confronts current issues using photography, science and cutting edge technology and projects them onto socio-political scenarios, focusing on the ethics of image making, and the tension between images, context and ideology." Text written by Maria Teresa Salvati My Spot of Beauty - C41 Magazine
Mónica is currently in the board of trustees for The Royal Photographic Society and Brighton Photo Fringe. She has also been in the jury panels of The Royal Photographic Society - IPA163 and the Bar-Tur Award, as well as a nominator for the Joop Swart Masterclass, and is a member of Women Photograph.
Fotografía del performance << code { eraseure } >> (2022) en la bienal del FotoFest en Houston, Texas. Fotografía por Daniel Ortiz.
Mónica y yo platicamos por Zoom, les comparto la entrevista como la llevamos a cabo, en spanglish.
IL: Mónica, tú creciste en la Ciudad de México, ¿verdad?
MAD: Sí, yo soy de México y me mudé acá a Inglaterra hace 20 años. Entonces me considero Londoniense, pero México es mi casa. Tengo dos casas, es la mejor manera de decirlo. Pero, por ejemplo, en cuestiones como el sueño, sueño ya en inglés. Son cuestiones extrañas después de llevar tanto tiempo metida en otra cultura. Hay conceptos como el de los algoritmos y tecnología y código, en que como toda mi investigación ha sido en inglés, entonces no es que me cueste trabajo decirlo en español, pero de pronto siento que las ideas hacen más sentido cuando las estoy diciendo en inglés. Y cuando me ha pasado entrevistarme en español, siento que estoy diciendo las cosas al revés, y me da una vergüenza porque soy Mexicana, pero es hacer ese switch de cómo estás instrumentando las ideas al que estoy muy acostumbrada a estarlas diciendo en inglés, entonces es eso. Hay conceptos muy precisos que de pronto no sé cuál es el link conceptual en español, pero sí me lo sé en inglés por haber leído los libros.
IL: Y como dice una amiga, ¿cómo le dices a tu cerebro que no piense en otro idioma?
MAD: Sí. Es que se me vienen las palabras en inglés y entonces las trato de traducir y me escucho toda mochita, entonces es una vergüenza porque la gente se me queda viendo como “pues si yo pensé que eras inteligente”. Entonces tengo que decir “espérame, háblame cuando este en México”. Cuando estoy en México me cambia el cerebro después de dos días y mi abuela y mi hermana me hacen una carrilla, me dicen: “¿por qué hablas así?” “No mocheés” “¿por qué estás hablando como toda transversa?” Y son dos días lo que me tardo para empezar a delinear y a definir las cosas.
IL: Yo que estoy aquí en la frontera, es muy interesante ver que por ejemplo en Cd. Juárez no mezclamos los idiomas pero estamos aquí en El Paso y sí.
MAD: Claro, es una cuestión también política, ¿no?. Por eso me da vergüenza, no es que esté apenada o haya dejado mis raíces, es que constantemente doy clases, leo y escribo constantemente en inglés. Pero bueno, gracias por comprender.
IL: Totalmente, tú háblame en el idioma que quieras, entiendo muy bien el inglés también. Me gustaría trenzarlo esto con qué tan importante ha sido para ti ser una artista binacional o transfronteriza, cómo esto ha influenciado tu trabajo. Yo lo conocí por primera vez ahora en la inauguración de la bienal de Fotofest en Houston. Me acuerdo que cuando entre a la exposición, lo primero que vi en el área donde esta tu trabajo era la escultura de un maíz y un aguacate como si estos fueran armas. El maíz estaba como una metralleta y el aguacate como una granada. Y me llamaron la atención estos alimentos siendo tan icónicos de la cultura mexicana, pero también tan controversiales…
MAD: El GMO, que están genetically modified, ¿no? Se vuelven batallas, ¿cierto? Se vuelven espacios de batalla.
IL: ¿Cómo surge esa idea? Tú eres una artista multidisciplinaria, usas fotografía, video, realidad aumentada... Me encantó darme cuenta de que tienes muchísima información en internet, son fascinantes todas tus entrevistas y me gusta mucho cuando compartes la idea de cómo el progreso no es el crecimiento. Cómo es que surge la serie que está ahorita en la Bienal, me desconcertó un poco pero al mismo tiempo me interesó saber cómo es que unes, por ejemplo, las imágenes con tus textos. Ahora sí que el piso es tuyo.
MAD: Cuando dices que me desconcertó, ¿qué significa?
IL: Ni sé bien cómo explicarlo, por ejemplo en Second Nature me encuentro con estas imágenes bellísimas en gran formato, muy coloridas pero donde predomina una mujer con la cara cubierta, sin identidad y con una naturaleza que está ahí, representada de alguna forma…
Static, de la serie Second Nature. ©Mónica Alcázar-Duarte, 2017-
MAD: So first, about the sculptures. The title of the sculptures is very important because it is all about the weaponization of identity. How finding myself in Europe, there is a whole different set of stereotypes towards Latin-Americans in the United Kingdom. There is a disinterest because of the distance, and it seems that they don’t have clarity in terms of the colonial link with Latin-America. This link is more obvious when it comes to Asia and Africa, which is interesting. At the same time once I moved to England, I started perceiving myself as this over exoticized person, and there was an expectation of acting more Mexican than a Mexican, if that makes sense. So it’s almost like I am required to perform my identity. That is when I start becoming interested in what it means to have your identity used against you. Then, all these stereotypes that I feel myself almost being required to fulfill become limitations. When I see imagery of how Mexico is represented, at least in the UK, I don’t see myself. These things are fantasies that are there to cover stereotypes and cultural expectations. So, when I use the avocado and the corn, it is because I know that they are short hand for Mexican cultural stereotypes.
My identity has been weaponized I.
My identity has been weaponized II.
De la serie Second Nature, ©Mónica Alcázar-Duarte. Fotografía: Ryan Hawk
The images that I found on the internet when I was searching: “Mexicans” or “why Mexican women…” “Mexicans are considered…” in the UK, was pretty much about food and violence. And after about 15 image results, these were mixed with Salvadorians and Colombians, and I thought that was interesting. The fact that we get grouped together speaks to what you were saying about these photos of people who are not really individuals, who have their individuality covered by covering the face. In a way, the algorithms and these mathematical formulas that are used to order images that we see online, pretty much on Google, are this: They strip us from any sense of individuality, and we become these amalgamations of creatures that lose their face.
“Guerita”, de la serie Second Nature. ©Mónica Alcázar-Duarte, 2017-
I am aware of ‘hair politics’ in Mexico, femininity, and indigenous culture, and I was very interested in that. I wanted long hair covering the female body and being a presence, being a confused celebration of what womanhood is. I feel that when I see femmes represented on the internet, I do not see myself, we are either a maid or a hot-headed Latin lover. Everything that happens in between, everything that is complex, or even contradictory, doesn’t exist. I was interested in hitting those contradictory notes, while at the same time making these an uncomfortable experience. I want an audience to be attracted to the color and the different elements of what you are seeing, but then there is something that is jarring and uncomfortable, and maybe you don’t understand what it is. This un-comfortability may have to do with the body language, or the body being in very unnatural positions, even though they are very dignified. These positions were usually painful postures that I held for about 10 minutes before taking the photographs. I wanted to communicate that tension of what it means to be held into a certain position that is very limited, that is very defined, that is very predisposed. It’s a combination of dignity and a forced performativity.
From the series Second Nature, ©Mónica Alcázar-Duarte, 2017-.
IL: Y de hecho es algo que me llamó la atención de tu trabajo, que eres muy versátil, ahora sé que eres tú la que estabas en esas posturas, o sea que además haces performance en tus imágenes... ¿Te limitas para trabajar dentro de un rango de tiempo en tus proyectos o solamente los dejas correr? ¿en qué momento sabes que tienes un cuerpo de trabajo?
MAD: For example, being myself in the photos is a result of not feeling comfortable with asking somebody else to go through this process. I just didn’t feel that I could ask a friend or a dancer or model to cover their head … I couldn’t ask somebody to do that. Also, it was me who was talking with people, and I took a lot of notes when I was speaking with people. They held a lot of tension in their hands, or their posture when they were talking to me about their stories and these moments that they went through. When something is affecting the nature of your human dignity it makes people immediately change their body language, so in a way I feel that my body became an archive of sorts; it became a memory archive for all these stories. I held these stories inside me for about a year. When I went into the studio, it was almost like a relief, that all these things came out of me, and I could let them to rest in the images. It was about a month that I was working in the studio. It was all very instinctive… I would put three different tables, one with the different wigs, another one with the props, and another one with the costumes. During the day of the shoot, I would put together the characters, the actions, and the postures. Once it all came out it became obvious that it was the end of the series. I was aiming for a certain number of images, only because that was a road map. Because you know how the creative process is, you go through it and suddenly you feel silly, and maybe things are not working as well, and maybe the images are not quite there, but then if you have a “destination” it helps. After taking and editing the photographs there is a completely different process that takes place. This stage relates to finding the feel of the final images, and drawing on top of the images; because there are hand-made drawings directly on the print. This stage requires another whole process, this included also experimenting with augmented reality. So all together, from 2017 to 2020 is that the project congealed. Then I added the performance, and the GAN film that you watched. For the film we trained an AI to see images of women not wearing bikinis, this took another year. These different stages cover questions that I still had after taking the photographs. These were questions that, as you grow more into the work, you start discovering new questions that you didn’t ask, or you didn’t even think of asking at the beginning. This is how it can take me from 1 year to 4 years to work on something. Then there are also new developments in technology, and maybe my position towards certain technology has changed. So I think it is very important to pace myself in terms of producing work. I think is important to always leave some space for growth. This allows reconsideration of my initial questions.
Screenshot of GAN film produced in collaboration with I am not data . ©Mónica Alcázar-Duarte
IL: ¿Como qué preguntas te han surgido que no habías considerado antes en el cuerpo de este trabajo?
MAD: For example, when I did the photographs, I always knew that I wanted to train a computer to see images and one of the questions that I had was: How to produce un-biased images. And of course, as one goes on the process of feeding the images to the computer, one realizes that even though you have the best of intentions, you are biased yourself, because it is human and I think it will be naïve to present that “we don’t have biases”. For example, the title of this stage of the project was Women not wearing bikinis, and as I started working with a coder in the Netherlands, we both thought “this title is binary”. Does this mean that we are not including non-binary people? Who are we to leave them out, right? Another question was: Who are we to exclude those who are wearing no-clothes, they are not wearing a bikini, so what does that mean? Does that mean we don’t include them? And then again, who are we to not include them? Because maybe for some people not wearing clothes is very empowering. I am aware of different politics, and of course there are different approaches, but all I am trying to illustrate is that things are not as simple, and I entered this process with a very naïve approach. I realized that the whole process of assembling a dataset is biased, and it requires a series of decisions in which a group of people will always be excluded. This is something that I learnt as a human being that was very enlightening. So, we made a website in which we reflected upon this process of assembling a dataset and training an AI with it. We used this process as a way of elucidating how commercial companies such as Google work. In a way our research demonstrates that the process itself, the workings of a dataset of sorting images, is discriminatory, is biased. Then the question behind this stage of the project becomes a question of power instead of about only bias. This, is a question that I found myself asking almost at the end of the project: How to balance off the power? How to make those images that now are at the bottom of web searches to appear higher up? And needs to be done for that to happen? This completely changed the approach to the whole project.
IL: Qué interesante porque al final de cuentas termina, como dices, perpetuándose infinitamente un código que viene siendo manejado por una institución o por tres personas que no tienen idea del impacto que están generando con su trabajo. Se me antojó que está exposición de la Bienal estuviera en estas instituciones, siendo vista por coders…
MAD: You know, I would love to have a meeting. I mean this is the whole idea of making work like this, so it doesn’t stay just within the silo of art or photography, but it reaches someone who oversees these decisions. One of the things that I learnt from all this is that the business model itself needs to change. The business model that is being used now using clicks, likes and so on, it is just as ancient as human history, it relates to sex and violence. This is what is making people money. So, I think the issue relates to what is still shaping our world. Why are these narratives of power and violence and sex still at the top of what is shaping our world? Why it isn’t more about ecological justice? Why it is not about something else than just profit? This is where my work’s ethos lies. A questioning of progress, endless resources, and eternal growth. Ideals that are proving to be outdated and impossible. We need to start imagining a different future, that is what we need to do.
IL: Diría la historiadora Yolanda Leyva que hay que ver en el patio de nuestras casas y da el ejemplo de Toñita Morales que es una líder comunitaria de 94 años que está en el centro de El Paso defendiendo un barrio que ella misma limpió, ella misma ayudó a mejorar, es un sitio histórico importante pero que están tratando de demoler para construir una arena de deportes. Para “construir” la ciudad, derrumbando la historia porque lo que necesitamos supuestamente es más, ¿no?
MAD: Eso es borrar, esta necesidad de borrar. Pero más que eso it is the concept of abundance. I read this book that is made by Hawaiian scientists, and half of it is written in Hawaiian, and half of it is written in English. And I thought: how wonderful! Half of this is for most people, but half of it is really just for us, for our community and so, why not? In this Hawaiian book, they are talking about abundance as realizing that what we have already IS enough. That is abundance. This relates to a shift of placing value on the here and now rather than the future. I think it is Slavoj Žižek who said that is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism. How poignant this is! This is what I mean when I mention how necessary it is to start imagining a different future.
IL: Muchísimas gracias, Mónica. Es un placer conocerte y gracias por abrir estas conversaciones y por aceptar estar aquí.
MAD: Muchas gracias, me interesa saber mucho lo que están haciendo con Duranguito.
IL: Te paso el Instagram y el Facebook que es Paso del Sur.
Al terminar esta charla, Mónica me compartió los siguientes links.
Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez
The Guardian : the more time that children chat on social media, the less happy they feel
Slate: TikTok Admits It Suppressed Videos by Disabled, Queer, and Fat Creators
Agradecemos a FotoFest Biennial 2022 If I had a Hammer por la cortesía de las imágenes. Pueden visitar el trabajo de Mónica en Silver Street Studios, en Houston, Texas que estará abierta hasta Noviembre 6, 2022.